2:22:45 Eric - So that would be if they leveled a charge against you say, "I'm here to plead guilty to the facts."? CW Right, because if there is no controversy there is no case. Now I can go into chambers and tell you why judge that I, as the Trustee, didn't make the payment by legal means. My legal reason is we are now under discretionary trust and I have discretion as the Trustee to withhold because the Beneficiary is bankrupt, insolvent. Eric - If the judge says to you, "What facts are you pleading guilty to?" CW I am going to agree with you that I am the Trustee. I am going to agree with you that I did not make a payment. If it is operating by trust then I'm in there as a Trustee/Defendant because I didn't make the payment then alright I'm going to agree that I'm the Trustee and I'm going to agree that I didn't make the payment. Now there is no controversy. While I am in there and explain to him it is a discretionary trust, "Oh, by the way your honor, here is a non-negotiable private instrument for the payment and now let me pay that so that the bankrupt Beneficiary is no longer bankrupt and then I can disburse the total funds, make him solvent again so now I can fulfill the purpose." I'm in a win-win situation, whether I'm going to play beneficiary or whether I'm going to play Trustee, either way. Either way we are in a win-win situation. Here we were wearing the slippers all along, just like Dorothy was in the movie. All we had to do was click our heels together 3 times - rights, titles, and interest in trust and we are back in Kansas again, back at home.
Eric - I have a case that I was involved in and I was acquitted back in the beginning of November, but there were a few things the were withheld adjudication on so they could get the statutory fine out of me. CW Right, so it would keep running in the background - the bid bond, payment bond, and performance bond. Eric - So I can turn them into a trust? CW Yeah, just get the main trust, the whole case, and that takes care of all the proceeds that are attached to it. Put it all in special deposit. Order it to be paid and whatever is left tell them to give me the disbursement back and you get the funds. Eric - So I could walk out of there with a check? CW No, but what you do with that check - is that going to be the temptation on the debtor side? Are you going to put that check back in under special deposit back on the private side and tell them to generate you interest from that, or else you are back in the same situation? Eric - At this point what would I do, send a NOI to the judges chambers? CW Well, yeah, ultimately I like to feed directly into the IRS because the IRS … the judge is going to have to listen to the IRS. Eric - The problem is the funds are due by the end of April. CW Then play the court route until you can get the IRS to come around and be your big brother and tell them they have to close the account. Eric - Go as them for more time to pay the fine until I get the IMF file changed over? CW Yeah, you could do that. Eric - What other choice do you think I have? CW Do the acknowledgment of the debt. That puts an estopple because of the agreement there is no controversy and then put the order in for the settlement. Come in and make sure that you've got a special deposit claiming all those bonds in the background and tell them to convert that to funds and make the settlement to close and settle that case. Eric - So I can do that before the IRS file, the IMF, is changed over? CW Yeah, then I could give that information to the IRS and tell them to check it out and make sure everything is all closed here. Eric - How would I do an acknowledgment of the debt at this point, would I do that directly to the court? CW Yeah, just put in an acknowledgment of the debt. Eric - It would be a notice and then I would … CW Acknowledgment of Debt, that would be the title of the document. Eric - Then as a real man I would acknowledge it? CW Through your strawman you would, yeah. Eric - Send that directly to the judges chambers or send it to his assistant to get a hearing in open court? CW That would have to be on the public side. Eric - But he is going to say you already acknowledged the debt the day I assigned it to you so what are we here for, right? CW Alright, but the bonds in the background, that is where you need to discuss that in-chambers. That encompasses that and you are going to disburse those funds - convert that to cash and settle everything in the background. Eric - So, do the acknowledgment so I can get a hearing so I can send in the NOI to get into chambers? CW Right, to get your SOI into chambers.
Eric - Then the SOI would be the case that would be turned into a trust and I would do that on a UCC-1 and 3, correct? CW Yeah, that would be the special deposit. Eric - So those are the documents, the UCC-1 and UCC-3, that specifically would be the SOI, correct? CW Along with the UCC-1 in the county also. Eric - So first I have to file it into the public record with a UCC-1? CW Yeah, first I've got to claim it if I don't have a title. I have to create a title. If I've got a title, which is the case already, I don't have to create it. The case number is the title. Claim it on a UCC-1. Now it is mine. Create the two witnesses. The UCC-1 and the county recorder. Now I've claimed it. Now it is mine and we want to move [transfer] it, we want to assign it, transfer it. We are going to make a special deposit under UCC-3. Do the UCC-3 and pull that out certified. That is one record. Do the county again and pull that out. That is two records. Now you've got two records to prove you did the 3 transfer, the formation of the trust, making a special deposit, and you can back up on the 1 that you claimed it. It was your property to move it. Now you transfer trust property. That is when the trust was formed. You now have the proof to prove you formed a trust because you transferred property to a trustee. So, there was a document put out there, notice of claim on the UCC-1 and you changed the wording … you only change one word for that notice in the county. Instead of claim you put transfer. Then you put that same verbiage on the UCC-3 in the collateral block. Now you are just making a transfer. There are only like three lines. The exact word was claim, but we changed claim on the 1 to put it on the 3, we changed it to transfer on the 3. The same verbiage though.
2:30:25 Eric - What verbiage are you talking about there? CW The Notice. The notice and the verbiage that goes in the collateral block, number 4. Eric - Right, but I don't have a model for that verbiage that I'm going to need so I'm wondering if you could tell me what the model of that is? CW It's really simple. It's only 3 lines long. Eric - While you are pulling that up, the judge that I have, they say he doesn't do in-chambers hearings. CW Yeah, right, does a bear crap in the woods? Tell him there is a protective order on this stuff establishing trade secret information and we have to have an in-camera hearing. They will look at your case and say, "Well you've got nothing to put it into an in-camera hearing with." They may be right. You haven't established CCI information by putting in the Protective Order. So this is just Notice, write across the top. This is what goes into the county.
2:32:10 [Verbiage for the Notice to claim the title to be filed in the county.]
"This is actual constructive public notice by Grantor[that he/she is]owner and holder of all right, title, and interest, with the non-negotiable instrument claim number RA-____________-US with all attachments and proceeds therefrom as being held in the private. [The RA is a Registered Mail Number which you sent to yourself previously, which was cancelled, and now is your private property to use as you see fit.]
If any information regarding this needs to be gleaned please contact the Grantor at the address below."
Then sign it,
Address of Grantor
Eric - That is the Notice [not sure if a separate Notice is needed for both the claim and the transfer] that goes into the county, but that's also what goes on the UCC-1? CW Yes, put that in collateral block 4 on the UCC-1. Eric - Then there is just one thing that changes on that collateral block 4 on UCC-1, one word on that, right? CW Yeah, you change if from claim … non-negotiable instrument claim number RA… now you are making a transfer. You change claim to transfer … right, title and interest, with the non-negotiable instrument transferred by number RA…with all attachments and proceeds therefrom…and then you are going to do a special deposit by transfer to the Trustee on a UCC-3. This goes into the county, pull this out certified, there is your Notice. That is one record. Put this verbiage in the collateral block 4 on the UCC-3 for the transfer. Do the same thing on the 1, but change the wording back to claim on the 1.
[This verbiage is what goes on the Notice to claim the trust title filed in the county and on the UCC-1 filed with the Secretary of State's office of your State.]
"This is actual constructive public notice by Grantor[that he/she is] owner and holder of all right, title, and interest, with the non-negotiable instrument claim number RA-____________-US with all attachments and proceeds therefrom as being held in the private."
[This verbiage is what goes on the Notice to transfer trust res property filed in the county and on the UCC-3 filed with the Secretary of State's office of your State.]
"This is actual constructive public notice by Grantor [that he/she is]owner and holder of all right, title, and interest, with the non-negotiable instrument transferred by number RA-____________-US with all attachments and proceeds therefrom as being held in the private."
2:33:50 Pull that out certified. Now there are your two witnesses right there. [Is a certified copy needed for a Notice of claim and a Notice of transfer, along with certified copies of the UCC-1 & UCC-3? If so, that would be a total of four certified copies, two for a claim and two for a transfer.] There is your proof to prove the claim that you formed a trust because you did a transfer of property on the 3. Any time you have a present transfer of trust res property to the Trustee you've got a trust, as long as you've got Intent, Purpose, and other Parties established. Your specific res you are naming with the RA number and whatever is in the case - put all that documentation in the footnotes of any documents you put in with the case and that indicates it's all the same thing. Anything with that RA number is encompassed in that case. You could reference that RA number to be Case No. such and such. Connect it all together like tinker toys. Eric - That RA number I'm going to reserve specifically for this case. Any other case I'll use a different RA number, correct? CW Different RA number, yeah, different trust. Eric - I've got to do that because I can't see paying them that $468 and it would be a great opportunity to put this technology to work to get into an in-camera hearing and have a real-world situation. If I do get an in-camera hearing and for some reason it doesn't go the way that I want to, can always go back and express again and get another hearing? CW Yeah, probably with some new trust res. Eric - What would be new trust res? CW Any new motions into the court you could turn them into special deposits also and turn them into another trust. Eric - At that point we could figure out a motion to do that maybe I can't pay the fine because there is no lawful money? CW In-chambers, yeah, you could say that kind of stuff. Eric - So that would be another motion to get back into chambers? CW Yeah, you could try that. Eric - I'm going to utilize your technology Christian and I can't wait to report back to you. CW I think that you are going to find out that when you get into chambers and the judge doesn't have the robe on they are going to be much more on your side because you aren't going to be on the side of the fictions in there.
2:36:20 Eric - What's the chances of me recovering the 3 grand I paid out to the lawyer for the trial that I had? Do you know of any method to do that? CW Well, if you've got the bond in the background that was attached to the case that has all the derivatives from there you are going to get the disbursement from that. If that's going on the assumption of say $4M on the county and $40M for the State and $400M for the Federal, per count, you are talking about a lot of money. Eric - These are misdemeanors, are they at that level? CW Yeah, that's what is really operating the courts. The value of your case on the public side probably doesn't pay the judge's lunch bill. Eric - What you are saying is I could get the disbursement for this $400M? CW Yeah, for all the bonds that are in the background. all the derivatives that are attached to this case, all the bid bonds, performance bonds, and payment bonds … all attachments and proceeds therefrom. This is going to encompass the whole thing; everything that is attached. Eric - I'm going to go into chambers and the case is going to be turned into a trust, what procedure do I go in to get those funds into my hands? CW You are going to go in and put in the order for the settlement, just like we discussed on the show, for taking the main account back. It's the same model. You are going to put in the order for the discharge on the one side and the order for the set-off on the other side. You are going to put the order to merge the titles. Once the titles are merged then there is no trust. The Trustee has to give you the disbursement, because there is no trust. Then he becomes personally liable because there is no trust protection for him. If he doesn't disburse the funds he becomes personally liable.
Eric - Since I haven't changed over my Individual Master File [IMF with the IRS] if I increase the National debt by $400M I want to do that before I change over my IMF because that is exactly what I'm doing by getting disbursement - it's getting put on the debt, right? CW If they give you debt titles back you are not going to put them back into circulation in the public. You are going to tell them, "Hey, put the remainder, after I've done the merging of the titles, if there is anything left over there, put that in this new trust that I'm going to establish." Then start generating some interest on the public side for that in a new LLC. Eric - So, for example, if I generate some interest, say 10% on $400M, I can write a check off of that 10%? Is that what you are saying? CW Yeah, if you could get the interest into the LLC. You might be able to do it that way. What may hold you up is they may seize the funds anyway because you are still effectively connected in as a debtor, because that original Master File might not be corrected. [Need to correct the IMF first.] It's the same reason why they are claiming, or freezing up, the OID funds. Eric - If they were to seize the funds, and they may not, as we talked about there being spotty remedy, right? CW Right. Eric - If they were to seize the funds then the chance of me recovering that 3 grand I paid out to that lawyer - I'll lose that chance? CW Possibly, yeah. If you put that in with the discharge that should take care of it though. That went into a special deposit. His fees and all of that should be discharged once you do the trust, once you merge the titles and terminate the trust. Eric - The lawyer has already been paid. CW Didn't you say there was something you owed yet? Eric - Yes, $468 in statutory fines. CW Ok, then that is part of the trust deposit. That should be taken care of with this trust so if you don't get any funds back that is still taken care of. Eric - Right. I understand that. I was just wondering how I could get my 3 grand back? CW Really you didn't give him anything. You gave him Federal Reserve Notes. They have no value. Eric - They have value right now Christian.
2:41:05 Pete - I just wanted to interject that I just found a book that I think would bring a lot of help to everyone. It's called Agency and Trusts for Payment of Debts Under Private Arrangement. I think it will help both ways, like for special deposits, not only for us paying debts but other people paying our debts back. CW Does it talk about special deposits in there, trust deposits? Pete - I've only just found it on the archive.org. It does talk about a soon to be published book - this book was published in 1868 and it says the soon to be published book is Prescription and Limitation of Time in Relation to Real Property of The Crown, The Duke of Cornwall, and Private Persons. CW The prescription was dealing with the right over an extended period of time. Pete - This book was printed at 3 Chancery Lane, which is the same street as the Public Trustee, the Solicitor General in England. … Pete read some from the book. CW Remember, a BOE [Bill of Exchange] is under d-c so you can't really use a negotiable instrument of any kind. But, what is likened to the BOE, but it would not be a BOE, is under Section 159 on page 41 [Gilbert Law Summaries - Trusts] read earlier about the merger of title. Merger of title acts like a BOE in exchanging the bill. You are merging the titles. You are merging the two bills together, the debt bill and the asset bill. When you merge the two bills it's the same as being a BOE, or exchanging the bills, but under trusts you are merging it. Under d-c you use the BOE. How you make a payment under trusts is you merge titles. Under d-c you write a BOE. Listen to the title for Chapter 2. Of Instruments for the Payment of Debts Without the Privity of Any Communication With Any Creditor. It's only a short book. It's only 100+ [actually 54] pages. That's crazy.
Posted by Chief Editor Grand Sheik Coleman-El, Authorized Rep UCC 1-308 at 5:15 PM